And I actually want to take a step back here, if you don't mind, and just make a few remarks about people in Alif overall, about about our efforts in combining technology and education. I don't know if you if you knew this, but the average age of our employees is 25. We have a lot of students, recent graduates. We train them ourselves. So to give an example of specific training, IT skills is an area where we felt that we could contribute to the education system in Tajikistan. So we established Alif Academy in 2017, as a nonprofit where we promote it education. So we provide free programming courses, including special courses for girls, for kids, for Afghan refugees.

So far, we've had more than 2,000 graduates of these courses, and some of them working, at least some of them work in other companies. And hopefully now in the new countries we had, and we have the privilege of being able to attract some of the most bright, kind, noble, energetic individuals throughout all these years, we had more than 50,000 applications to to our vacancies. And we've chosen and retained the very best.

If you have to remember what we talked machine learning AI today is not something that's come around today, right? What has changed today is our ability to store enormous amount of data economically. Number two is the processing speeds we have today. You know, you want a search bar before you type, your third word is already telling you what it should be. So think about it. And there are millions of people doing it at the same time, any second. And the third thing is the speed of transmission of information.

I think those three in combination literally are the most fertile ground to bring AI to life.

And that's what we've essentially done. But be mindful that when you're doing things at that speed, there are things that could happen which go out of your control.

Because again, credit scores really don't resonate well for that customer, but the fact that I can access more loans and more services from the bank makes a lot of sense, right?

So, the messaging itself can we change, make it more people friendly, make it more empathetic, again, is is an important factor that we keep working on. So understand the behaviour the formats, the messaging, and then devise and develop a complete strategy around customer engagement, what is the life cycle that we can build? So segment and perhaps micro segment the customer and build optimised life cycles for these micro segments of customers that we are onboarding and all that is to ensure that these people understand their loans make their payments on time?

There shouldn't be any instance where you know we have to limit the access to the device. So the idea is never to reach that hence, how do we use AI and ML to create very effective and efficient life cycles, messaging journeys for these people. So that, you know, the delinquencies are in check.

So what I actually did was, I saw this potential for people who were underserved in a multitude of different ways to actually be empowered and take control of their own future through social impact businesses, which I think microfinance really comes under. And so what I started doing is leveraging my background in ERP solutions and tech platforms, and got involved in microfinance or banking tech platforms. And so it was really combining the two.

But what was really interesting was that, everywhere I went, despite the fact that countries were so different geographically and demographically, that I saw this underlying resilience and determination amongst people who just didn't have opportunities presented to them on a plate, and that given the right support, and the right tools at the right time that they could actually then forge their own futures, pretty much everywhere I was going, which was from Sierra Leone to Pakistan to Vietnam.

Mukesh Bubna 7:30

Sure. First of all, we've done a slight pivot and "led grow, borrow grow" we've changed that very recently, so it's not on our website, but we moved to "delivering financial happiness".

What does that mean? From an investor point of view, in India, the fixed deposit interest rates have plummeted in the last two years from 9% to 5%, while the inflation rate runs close to 6% officially (unofficially it runs much higher). And then there's a 35% tax on the interest income. So you can imagine anybody keeping money in a bank on a fixed deposit is losing money in India. So our proposition to them is risk adjusted yield - we should be able to give you 2x of fixed deposits. And that's happens, right? Your money is growing. And that's a good thing to happen for you.

We tell our consumers to diversify across at least 100 borrowers. Now, that gives them a comfort of ability to absorb any shock from delayed payment or delinquencies.

Second is that we also have certain innovation, what we have launched also is a monthly income plan. So if somebody brought somewhere around 5 million Indian rupees on our platform, we are able to give them an income of 50,000 rupees a month, which goes back to their account for their own need, whether they want to shop they will travel, whatever they feel like. No, it is not 50,000 like a fixed deposit system. It's an arrangement giving you a ballpark on our app. Investors can start investing in less than two minutes, and can fun transfer 24 by 7, I don't have any human intervention required anymore for any investor, individual institution to on board themselves.

I can answer your question as a consumer. And in general, I can also share my viewpoint on the whole market. No doubt Hong Kong is a very competitive market, the credit card issuers are facing strong competition. For myself, I think I have more than five cards but in general, I will focus on one or two cards that're my major transaction medium. Why I want to just focus on using one or two cards is because of the benefits, because of the discounts, because of the cashback. You can go to different shops or restaurants, you have discounts, you have rebates and then on different purchases, you have also other privileges. That's the major motivation. I think, in general that's true for other consumers in Hong Kong.

And on the other hand, as you're said because they're always new cards coming out with new features, especially the welcome gift, you spend a few $1,000 and then you can get some cash coupon or you can get some premium or whatever - then that will motivate you to to apply for new card, but after that it will just sit there. I think that's a very normal way of life.

I can answer your question as a consumer. And in general, I can also share my viewpoint on the whole market. No doubt Hong Kong is a very competitive market, the credit card issuers are facing strong competition. For myself, I think I have more than five cards but in general, I will focus on one or two cards that're my major transaction medium. Why I want to just focus on using one or two cards is because of the benefits, because of the discounts, because of the cashback. You can go to different shops or restaurants, you have discounts, you have rebates and then on different purchases, you have also other privileges. That's the major motivation. I think, in general that's true for other consumers in Hong Kong.

And on the other hand, as you're said because they're always new cards coming out with new features, especially the welcome gift, you spend a few $1,000 and then you can get some cash coupon or you can get some premium or whatever - then that will motivate you to to apply for new card, but after that it will just sit there. I think that's a very normal way of life.

"The risk of giving into temptation is as old as humanity. But there are reasons to think that people today are having to work harder to resist it, particularly when it comes to consumer behaviour. Digital technology has made it easier and faster to buy goods and services in an instant, without the delays of processing that once comprised an inbuilt cooling off period". This might sound like a headline from today's papers, but in fact it was from an article in The Financial Times published seven years ago, almost to the day - at a time when Klarna was around, yes, but only just beginning its global expansion, Affirm was only two years old, and AfterPay only a few months old. Welcome back to How to Lend Money to Strangers, the podcast about consumer lending strategies across the credit lifecycle and around the world.

It's not the only that the banks won't give the card to them, because they are too young, they don't have enough income, or things like that, they just don't want to go through the more tedious process to get a credit card… now you don't need to go to any banks, you don't need to produce any documents, and you can get a loan in maybe a couple of seconds.

We are always on the lookout for new data sources, or external providers, and whenever we see something that's interesting, we test it… In the end, it comes down to what can we pay per gini point of lift?