KYC better, with Sasha Marley
"Trust matters more than ever, but in today's anonymous landscape, it is becoming rarer by the day. (At Bondafidee) we want to change that."
I recently sat down with Sasha Marley for one of the most personal interviews I've done here, because fraud isn't just a numbers thing, it has very real human impacts.
Bonafidee is at home online home at https://bonafidee.com/ (or jump straight to YourQNA at https://bonafidee.com/features/your-qna-kba/)
As she mentioned in our chat, Sahsa is very active on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/sasha-marley-19156a2/), where you can also find Bonafidee (https://www.linkedin.com/company/bonafidee-com/) But as I went to get the right links, I saw they have just been awarded the Digital Innovation of the Year - Cyber Security/ID Verification Award at the Motor Finance Europe Awards for the Consumer Duty Package we discussed, so you might also want to read more about that (https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7122962260506882048/)
Find the police's tips at https://www.actionfraud.police.uk/
Or walk a very different path by going on your own reiki retreat https://fayjohnstone.com/
LinkedIn is also where you’ll find me (https://www.linkedin.com/in/brendanlegrange/) and this show (https://www.linkedin.com/company/how-to-lend-money-to-strangers/) - so pop over and send me a connection request
My action-adventure novels are on Amazon, some versions even for free, and my work with ConfirmU and our gamified psychometric scores is at https://confirmu.com/ and on episode 24 of this very show https://www.howtolendmoneytostrangers.show/episodes/episode-24
If you have any feedback or questions, or if you would like to participate in the show, please feel free to reach out to me via the contact page on this site.
Keep well, Brendan
The full written transcript, with timestamps, is below:
Sasha Marley 0:00
The way that I'm trying to deal with things is to try and talk about it more, so that people are more prepared.
Fraudsters, they actually target humans because that's the weakest link. So you have to work with technology and with humans to make sure it's all secure. You know, everybody is susceptible to some sort of issues. And you'd be surprised what people will do when they're in a problem situation. So everyone has to be vigilant.
You think you're okay, but let's make KYC better.
Brendan Le Grange 0:27
"This is a fascinating glimpse into a young field, just as its technological possibilities are exploding... by panning out, we perceive what's invisible on the ground features that relate not just to the physical landscape, but to the history of humanity and our relationship with Earth".
That's from Nature's review of Archaeology from Space. Dr. Sarah Parcak's "lively and engaging narrative about not only what it's like to be an archaeologist, but how archaeologists use the data they've gathered to understand the ancient world". The second part, they're coming from Forbes.
Anyway, it is a book I've been wanting to read for years, but with it not coming out in an audiobook format. I've struggled to find the time, mores, the pity, or I would have had a chance to go on an exceptional tangent with today's guest: entrepreneur, financeer, fraud fighter... and part time space archaeologists.
Welcome to How to Lend Money to Strangers, with Brendan le Grange.
Well, Sasha Marley, partnerships and business development at Bonafidee, welcome to the show.
Sasha Marley 1:54
Thank you, Brendan.
Brendan Le Grange 1:55
Sasha, when I do my research for these shows, it's usually quite easy for me to get a handle on my guest. But when I looked at your background, you're a little bit more enigmatic than most. Even when I put aside the fact that I got some results for Sasha Marley, the Ghanaian reggae star, we still have Sasha in the property space, Sasha in the FinTech space, and Sasha doing archaeology from space. So how have you arrived at where you are today?
Sasha Marley 2:20
I wish I was a reggae star! Actually, like I used to say to people, Bob's my uncle.
Actually, I'm actually Irish/ Viking descent. It's quite an interesting namesake, actually Marley. So My great grandpa was a surgeon called Miles Marley, and he actually was the namesake of Jacob Marley from A Christmas Carol. So he actually knew Charles Dickens. So quite, quite proud bit of heritage there. And he was actually at a party in Piccadilly in London, and Charles Dickens, it was quite taken with his name. He said to him, by the end of the year, your name will be a household name. So there you go.
I started off wanting to be an archaeologist, actually. I watched Indiana Jones and sort of fell in love with him. Didn't actually find any gold, but it's a passion of mine, I'll always have. I went to London and the streets were not paved with gold either. I did learn a lot of lessons working for gaming company, Sporting Index and then I went to work in an investment banking company, Hambros Socgen. I've done quite a few things, placing consultants in city banks, working in an Isle of Man company for taxation solutions.
So I certainly tried everything before I could find my niche. And then I ended up getting hired by one of the Dragons, James Caan. But then my client moved to a payments company, and I didn't really know what payments was, but it was in back in the day, payments was about air time. And a bit like it is an African now where it's a kind of currency.
So I basically delved into that payment space and made a bit of a name for myself. And so that was the sort of journey of getting to where I've got to, it took me a long time to get there. But I started my first business about four years ago. And it was it was in recruitment, but I've had loads of different businesses, some, some have gone really well and some are not constant well, but then I've experienced frauds along the way.
That's why it attracted me to start with Bonafidee it really, because I'm really passionate about making sure it doesn't happen to other people, because it's an emotional nightmare. And a financial nightmare.
Brendan Le Grange 4:30
Yeah, and it's, I mean, I think it's worth talking about in a bit more depth. Because, up until that point, if I look at your experiences, just from the outside, it's a challenges that you've taken on trying different things.
But to my eye, a lot of them were front end faced and my perception of KYC and compliance is much more back end and that sort of thing that people come in on a very straight line. They studied law at university then they worked as compliance and now they're in compliance. Or maybe these days a little bit more technical, but it's really interesting to hear hear that it's powered by personal experience and a desire to stop fraud, rather than necessarily a career step sort of thing that you would have planned out.
Sasha Marley 5:09
If you don't go with your passions, how can you be happy, really?
So my own experience being a personal experience of ID fraud or fraud as a whole. If you're not passionate about what you want to do, I don't think you can achieve anything really. So I'm lucky that I've got a passion for this. And Bonafidee is a company I wanted to get involved in. They've just basically grown through word of mouth. So so now it's really time to scale and it's good to talk to you about them.
Brendan Le Grange 5:36
Yeah, well, let's do that, let's talk about Bonafidee. I went to www.bonafidee.com and I see you describe yourself as the complete anti-fraud KYC platform, which is a big title to take on. So let's break that down into into what it means.
Sasha Marley 5:51
Yeah, so Bonafidee is a tech company, which is established, but in scale up mode - there's about 20 of us - founded by Steve Tom's and Francis Lang, both exceptionally good at what they do and very serious about anti-fraud solutions.
And we're the UK leaders in digital anti fraud solutions.
We give businesses cutting edge paperless anti fraud technology to build trust more easily and make life impossible for ID fraudsters who scam companies out of billions every year.
In every single touchpoint, it's the simplicity and accessibility that we give them to confirm that they know who they're dealing with. And that includes NFC, passport checks, liveness and biometric checks, as well as being able to sign a contract and set up the payment terms.
Brendan Le Grange 6:45
The world all went digital, has been for a while, but obviously COVID was an accelerator there. But getting that balance between customer service and risk, it's really important to get our heads around that we're not leading too far one way or another.
Sasha Marley 6:59
That's absolutely right, you've nailed it.
The consumer GT from FCA, which has just come in to force is basically tackling those needs, and been able to incorporate the guidelines from the FCA into our workflow. So if they're having trouble with any part of it, they will know that they can react real time, which is really important, we can also make sure that it's 100%, an outcome which is positive, and they can cope with abandonment, etc. So we just want to make sure all of the information that they've got is going to be verified. And it also in the same way, makes it extremely difficult for any fraudster to get through our process.
Brendan Le Grange 7:38
If I'm a customer of bonafide ease using the KYC product, what sort of checks are you able to do on my behalf for my customers?
Sasha Marley 7:47
Well, that's interesting. I mean, there's about 22 different methods that you can use. So it depends on your appetite for risk on what the actual asset value is, because you're going to be doing a lot more checks. If you're going to be buying and selling houses or planes or boats or cars, then you are with something much, much smaller, which as digital trust pioneers.
Trust matters more than ever, but in today's anonymous landscape it is becoming rarer by the day. We want to change that.
And how we're going to change that is to make people understand that it's the combination of all the different technologies that you use, that's going to make you susceptible to fraud when you're onboarding new customers. So you've got to make sure that that environment is secure, and independent. And also, it's tamper proof.
So that is the key to what we do, which is different. And we also have got some very good features that help with making the questions and answers around that customer completely unique, with a combination of multiple ID checks. And that could mean anything from your passport, biometric live testing, the address, all of the normal basic ones, like your card, any sort of combination. That's all verified in real time.
And also with our dynamic YourQNA - which is Bonafidee taking one of the longest established verification processes to the next generation.
So this tool dynamically generates a unique one time security question and checks the answers against the information held in a series of private databases instead of relying on public available information. The YourQNA poses questions like what's the registration mark of your black Mercedes? And how old will your daughter be on her next birthday? So it can be irrefutable and tamper proof and also fully enforceable in a court of law.
Brendan Le Grange 9:44
One thing I like about the examples you used is that it's not financial data. And I think we can get caught up when we work in a bank or a lender that we think people pay much more attention to their financial data than they do. When did you open your credit card? It's got no bearing on my life. But I use my car registration all the time. I know my kids birthdays are, those are things that are true to me.
And one thing before I forget about it that I want to come back to because this is not about creating, you know, a single test, you mentioned, multiple tests we can choose from, but it's all about choosing one that we think will work for the most people, even one workflow that will work for the most people, you have the ability to ask different types of tests to my customers, should they fail? The one so should they not know their registration number, it might pop up a different type of thing data might go to the selfie check or the liveness check.
Sasha Marley 10:40
Yeah, it's about inclusivity, which is one of the guidelines for the FCA from the consumer duty, lots of companies think that they know that they are safe. And it is only when it's too late that they realise.
And what we want to do is we want to educate businesses, that if they're using different technologies to go through this process, they are giving themselves an opportunity to have fraudsters get them, you know, they're opening themselves up. And it's been a problem actually, in history going back to my college days, I mean, King Henry VIII basically defrauded the whole of the UK, who was tight for money. And he got into a situation where he actually increased the copper content for silver coins. And his nickname was copper nose, because the when the silver coins went into circulation, there's nose rubbed into copper.
People in times of stress, particularly in a cost of living crisis that we've got now, you know, it everybody is susceptible to some sort of issues. And you'd be surprised what people will do when they're in a problem situation.
So everyone has to be vigilant, and you say how to lend money to a stranger. But you also know that quite a lot of frauds happen with people that you know, and also your family. If you look at some of the stop fraud organisations and websites, they actually talk about different frauds are targeted at different age groups and different types of people. So that they are susceptible depending on your environment, and who you are and who you interact with. So it is on the increase.
And we all have a responsibility to do something to stop it happening. Because at the end of the day, it's costing consumers more, because the banks will pass it on. That is quite serious.
Brendan Le Grange 12:24
Well, let's talk about how serious it is. Because when I started my career, it was in credit card fraud prevention. And there used to be sort of a phrase about the cost of doing business, I think it was 0.07% of spend on the card was a target for fraud losses, and it was part of the finances and a given that we will have fraud. And when is happening to the bank, and it's just some money spent on a stolen credit card. To some extent, that's true, it is just money, a cost of doing business for a bank.
But once fraud moved from somebody picked up the credit card, you dropped on the street and used it to somebody stole your identity, being able to dismiss it so easily by saying it's a cost of doing business is just no longer valid. The cost for a consumer can be ongoing, if your ID stolen, it's much more than
Sasha Marley 13:13
it's not just a financial loss. It's more of an emotional loss. I mean, the pain I went through, I think I've had some flaws happened to me. And it is the I actually remember the emotional pain rather than the financial pain more on some on the other way on others.
But I think everybody knows somebody who's had it happen. And the more we talk about fraud, and how we've been a victim of fraud, like for instance, myself, and that's on a personal basis on a business basis, then the more you talk about it, the better the situation is because it's about education, at the end of the day, the value of it is increasing, and we all have to do a better job for fighting fraud.
And if we make it more difficult for them, which is what bonafide it really is about being able to prove who you are, and be able to do it multiple times from multiple different sources without having to use generic data, like you've talked about.
Brendan Le Grange 14:02
I've always been interested in that E signature/ e witness space. Because of all the tools that came online, it seemed the signature was the least back by science, at least from a user's point of view, where we went from a world where I had to be in person signing a document to me typing my name into a document and it seemed like it isn't doing much. I'm literally just typing my name in most cases.
So maybe we could dive a bit deeper here when I do an e-signature, when bonafidee is checking my e-witnessing what is actually happening in the background there that's verifying my ID beyond me just being able to type out a name?
Sasha Marley 14:43
It's all about what you need the signature to actually do. So you can use you know, any kind of signature documentation process, but if you really need to have that backed up in a court of law about who it is you need to make sure that you're doing that combination within the same process. So That's the difference.
The other major differences for businesses in particular is you've got to have a third party to verify it, most businesses fall down on is that they use a product which they can actually tamper with. They store it on their on their servers, and they don't have a third party storing that information. And that can actually be, you know, tampered with, let's say.
So, with bonafidee, it's a third party solution, which means that that evidence pack that's created has got a timeline, which means everybody knows throughout the journey, who it is that's dealing with it, and it's within that secure space. And by the end of it, it is sealed, like a documents sealed. And that's why it's been approved with the process for getting a second charge on a on a mortgage, which is actually groundbreaking. I went to a conference earlier this summer, and it said 22 weeks was the average time to buy a house.
I mean, people need things done a bit quicker nowadays, because they're worried about these rates increasing, etc.
Brendan Le Grange 15:57
It's also just such a stressful time of your life buying a house that you don't need the hassle of weeks between things like document signings, and yes, well, the value of your house might change in a month. Yeah, and the deal might fall down. I mean, in the old days, when the prices were rocketing, as a buyer, you might be worried somebody would come in with a higher offer because the house has gone up in value.
Now, as a seller, you might be worried that the other way around, but it's just a time when you don't need more stress.
We operate in a world where things are very convenient for the most part, and we hold those benchmarks, one click, and the next day somebody is delivered to my house, that our tolerance for Okay, wait a week, drive into an office of a notary to have it signed in person, it just runs very counter to how we've live.
Sasha Marley 16:43
Yeah, I mean, that's a really good point, actually. So you're talking about the difference between it being frictionless onboarding, and completely compliant.
Now, you don't want it to be too easy to onboard, because they get a bit scared, they will literally close their account straightaway. Because they're worried about fraud. There's also the whole point about making it not very difficult, but it has to be real time, it's got to be fluid, and it's got to be secure.
So we've kind of come to a good scenario where we do enough combinations, let's say two or three different ID checks, something that can be easily done within a very short timeframe, so that all of those boxes are ticked for security, and integrity. And it also means that you can still on board quite quickly,
Brendan Le Grange 17:32
We do want a process that feels secure to me, as a user, I don't want to drive into an office and wait and sign a piece of paper in front of a person. But I also don't want to just type my name in my room, so having the checks is great. And then having them in combination, I think is vital, because one of the things I'm aware of with the show is obviously there's now a lot of generative AI that can do voice generation, as long as they've got X minutes of your voice available, which then obviously, I have my voice available now. And the bank offers an option to use your voice as your password, that makes me nervous. So I don't want to have a single point of failure.
Sasha Marley 18:10
Feeling secure in this day and age is vital to continue to do business as a consumer and as a business owner. But if you don't get it right, you're open to fraud, not just on a personal basis, but on a business basis.
It can actually sink you sometimes it's just too late. If you don't get it right. Yeah, don't don't fall down and think that you're protected when you're not. Whether you're a consumer or business, basically, that's the thing. So just don't be the one that gets a fraud attack, just don't be that person.
And what you don't know is what you don't know. So get the experts in to really help with with making sure your workflow is fully compliant.
KYC better.
And you just don't know how you are going to be targeted until after it happens. And that's the cruel thing about fraud. Just going back to a point about E signatures, what we do which is different a Bonafidee with E signatures is we don't just do a squiggle on on a document they actually embed into the document. It's important to get that right so that they can actually verify who it is this seeing the document reading the document and signing the document.
And we have a unique code, which is very much similar to when you get asked to make sure you're not a bot. You get asked can you please put a cross in where the motorcycles are, you've got to go against the bots go against the technology, but also fraudsters, they actually target humans because that's almost the weakest link.
So you have to work with technology with humans to make sure it's all secure. And some people don't know how to take a photograph of themselves properly. We can identify that if somebody can't take a photograph of themselves. They could probably do a liveness test and we can also do a biometric test.
But there's some people still can't do that. So then we've got another option, which means that they can actually put in a combination One of the things that they can do, and then still get verified. So it's like an inclusive situation, regardless of whether you're too young or too old, or whatever your situation is, there is a way that you can do it and be verified with www.bonafidee.com
Brendan Le Grange 20:13
Yeah. And I think in the past, people would have just treated the 80% through one method, and then sent the other 20% to a branch to sort it out.
Sasha Marley 20:22
That's not going to work with the new guidelines from consumer duty, it's just not going to be good enough, you have to make sure as a business that you're looking after 100% of your potential clients, and branches are actually closing on the high streets for lots of different kinds of companies, everyone's going more digital.
So you've got to be able to cater for that. And making sure there's positive customer outcomes.
Brendan Le Grange 20:46
You mentioned there mentioned a bit earlier the cost of living crisis, and we've seen stories in the papers about what that's leading to in terms of like shoplifting increasing clearly, people are really struggling. And one of the things I can do is help somebody over the line from being fully law abiding to taking some chances with with what they're doing.
Have you seen that translate into more fraud?
Sasha Marley 21:12
Yes, there has been a rise in fraud. I think I've got some stats, actually. Okay, so these are quite stunning. I got these facts from stop ID fraud dot code at UK. New research shows that 24% of UK citizens have now been a victim of fraud identity, which is the highest figure in Europe, plus a further 75% have been exposed to scams used by identity fraudsters. Now that is pretty bad.
And then business wise, just 5% of the British people are 100% confident that the organisations they deal with treat their personal information in such a way that is not accidentally going to fall into identity fraud, sand, meaning that 95% are not completely confident in this respect at all, which is pretty scary.
Brendan Le Grange 22:05
Yeah, my wife's brother and his family have just moved from New Zealand. And they've been staying with us as they get settled. Here. Day one, they go and get mobile phone numbers and immediately the calls start coming in the the the ones we all know here, the post office one, the tax one, but immediately they're getting hit with a scam.
So yeah, I mean, essentially 99% of the UK being at least exposed to it. It's a shocking number on one hand, but as soon as you've been here for a little bit of time, you're not surprised because it is just rife with that, and somebody's going to make a mistake.
And they're getting more sophisticated.
Sasha Marley 22:41
And these fraudsters will keep coming at you. And they will get faster and wiser and smarter. But to be honest, I didn't know all the things that could have happened to me until actually I'd experienced them. So it's a massive warning to anyone, you know, whether you're a consumer or a business person, or you have a business and you own a business, or you've got a business partnership, or whatever it is, just make sure you're vigilant about everything.
Don't think that you know somebody, because you might not know them as well. You know, fraud, fraudsters can have lots of different faces and guises. It might be a stranger, like your podcast, but it also might be somebody that you know, so just be really, really careful out there. Reputations take years to build up and it takes a second to destroy.
Brendan Le Grange 23:25
And I love that. It's not something about, here's the set of rules, and this is which boxes you need to take to be compliant with regulation. But how am I going to solve the problem?
Sasha Marley 23:35
I'm passionate about the environment, but I'm also passionate about anti fraud technology, you know, it's just the simple things that can cause the smallest amount of change, but it's just so vital for business.
And I'm very passionate about telling people how to fix that they don't have a problem. And they don't even know they've got a problem until it's too late. If we talk about it more than people will understand about it more, but mostly victims of fraud, don't really want to talk about it because they're so embarrassed.
And that's why I wanted to say yeah, I've been a victim of fraud. When I was moving house, we had all of our furniture from one house to another house, we actually kept it in a double garage, which is at my father in law's house. And unfortunately, there was an impersonation of one of our friends and my father noise. He's not around anymore, but he was quite elderly, and also suffering from Parkinson's, unfortunately, but anyway, he was not as sort of a student I guess he wanted to be, but he wanted to believe whoever it was not to his door. That person knocks on his door said, We are the removal men. And we're going to take all of the stuff and we need paying. He actually had to go and get the money cash out of the cash point and pay these people and they took all of my staff, I mean, my entire contents of my house and that includes everything, including a sports car that we've been renovating just completed.
Yeah, I've been a victim of fraud... and now I'm a fraud fighter.
Brendan Le Grange 24:59
I've said before And the show that for me, the biggest change I've seen in my career is the role of compliance. And that's changed from what is not allowed to how can we solve the problem? And yes, there are rules. And we check in we follow the rules, but we don't start with the rules. We're saying how do we make positive impacts for for customers for consumers, which is key because any body can be compliant by putting lots of horrible rules that you can, you're gonna get done with six months of work sitting in various branches, and the business will die. So it's very creative space.
Sasha Marley 25:34
Now, it might sound boring, but it can protect you and getting contracts and you know, e signatures and ID verification, all wrapped up in a situation is really important to get right
Brendan Le Grange 25:45
And things will go the easiest path, so if you haven't got an easy, safe path, then you're in danger.
There has to be an easy safe path because you can only rely on people doing the same thing for so long. It has to be easy or naturally it will be avoided, which is brings us nicely to the bonafide a strapline KYC better if people want to have a look at what you're offering, want to set up a demo want to learn more about bonafide it?
Where can they find Bonafidee online? And you've already mentioned that you're very big on LinkedIn, so that's obviously a good place. But where can they find you and start a conversation?
Sasha Marley 26:23
Well, you can certainly have a look at the bonafide d.com features. And you can book a demo if you want to have a look at that.
But also, I'm on LinkedIn, Sasha Marley, I've got two different accounts, actually, which is a bit naughty. But yeah, you can have, you can have a direct conversation where you can book a path now chat with me and my diary, actually, if you want, if you want to talk about how we can help you with implementing an E witness solution, if you're a broker, and you want to speed up the onboarding process, if you're in property finance, then we can certainly help you.
And also if you're a lender and you want to do some unique deals, we can certainly create a solution for you, which will help you gain some competitive advantage. So we're all about doing some groundbreaking stuff.
In fact, in 2017, we did a first e signature property transaction, you can see on YouTube, and Natasha kaplinsky, who's quite a famous news reader does a really good video on us. And there's also a nice video. There's, there's other stuff that you can see. But yeah, reach out. And we're happy to chat about how we can help you because as as you know, passionate fraud fighter, so hopefully that's come across and bonafide is a great company to work with, you probably won't have heard of them, because we've white labelled most of our staff.
But we're certainly going out there and making some really good partnerships in these different spaces.
Brendan Le Grange 27:41
Yeah, well, I know that passion is definitely come across. It's been a pleasure chatting to you today. I'll put all those in the show notes as well, but definitely worth looking you up on LinkedIn.
99% of us are already exposed to some frauds, all of us in business are at risk so it's a topic that even if you are not in that part of your business is actually part of your business, it seems so yeah, suggest everybody goes and has the look and has a think about what they have in place as defences,
Sasha Marley 28:10
Thank you, Brendan.
Brendan Le Grange 28:11
That's actually before I let you go, this is a lending show. And you have as you mentioned very briefly in the intro there an acid finance business in the furniture space. So before we go out into the last of the sunny Brighton day, what is Marley Furniture?
Sasha Marley 28:26
The reason I started my furniture is because I was working with a business partner at the time, and they couldn't get any more leasing credit because they'd overexposed themselves. And I didn't necessarily want to put it in my name because I was doing a whole bunch of other stuff with the business.
And I thought, well, what should I do so actually, when I was up in Edinburgh, a really good friend of mines house, she is a Reiki Master funnily enough, she's written loads of books, really good friend of mine, Faye Johnstone, and I went on a retreat, loads of meditation and Reiki and she sort of heals me and we do some kind of meditation, which basically helps you sort of expand your mind, which is kind of crazy. But anyway, she's like, I've known her since I was four years old, so I love love her so much. And and then when I woke up from this meditation, I basically started the business within like a few hours.
And it was really my first real moment of clarity. By having that time and space and mindfulness. Thinking about what I needed to do.
And what I need to do is to create my own asset finance business. Why can't I just do it myself? So that's basically how it started and it's been my most successful business. And I call it mighty furniture because that was like the easiest thing to call it. I should have called it something else to be honest, it's not very sexy, but yeah, so I basically just finance furniture which is eco furniture I bought the property investors space or my own supplier - hello Affi up in Manchester - and I've done a parliament hotel on the seaside and I've done a few places in London and Essex and Kent and yeah, it's actually going really well. So I'm really, really proud of that company. But that basically I've automated it, so it runs itself. So hence why I'm working with Bonafidee.
Brendan Le Grange 30:13
Yeah, it's lovely to hear that, as I say, sort of underlines what we did in the spoke about in that in the introduction, your range of interests and passions, which is always lovely to hear. So thank you again for sharing those with me.
Sasha Marley 30:26
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Brenton.
You know, that whole copper pot thing with the copper nice and the archaeology. I've actually, I also do silversmithing as well. So I'm like, Oh, just I'm just basically like, want to do so many different things. You've got to have something that you're passionate about an Ico and fraud, fighting and mighty things at the moment. And also, you know, burning up silver and making things
Brendan Le Grange 30:52
And thank you all for listening.
Please do look for and follow the show on your favourite podcast platform and share the updates widely on LinkedIn where lending nerds are found in our largest concentration. Plus, send me a connection request while you're there.
This show is written and recorded by myself Brendan le Grange in Brighton, England and edited by Fina Charleson of FC Productions.
Show music is by Iam_wake, and you can find show notes and written transcripts at www.HowtoLendMoneytoStrangers.show and I'll see you again next Thursday.